C1: Why do you Asian women love white men?
C2: I don’t love “white men”. In fact, I am suspicious of white men. When white men express interest in me, the first thing I look for is if he displays signs of Asiaphilia. It’s usually obvious, but the question is whether or not it was just a “coincidence” that he acted that way.
C1: How can you tell if a white man is an Asiaphile?
C2: Racially-segregated white men who are Asiaphiles or have Asian fetishes believe that I will automatically fall in love with them because they are white. The way they behave towards me is disrespectful and patronizing. They behave as if white men are God’s gift to Asian women. They think they are doing me a favour by expressing sexual interest. They think that they are “above” me and that I am “below” them, and that they are giving me the privilege of being with a white man. Racism and sexism are major turn-offs, not just for potential partners, but for anyone you meet.
C1: What do you mean that it’s racist and sexist? How is it racist or sexist?
C2: How is it racist? White Asiaphiles treat me with less respect that they would treat a white woman. White men don’t normally go up to white women and “expect” that they will be accepted. I’ve had white men that I’ve talked to only a few times suddenly invite me to spend the night at their place. White men aren’t so bold with white women. These white men obviously don’t see me as a full person or a real woman.
C1: Well, you can’t say that. You don’t know what they are thinking. You don’t have any proof that they are racist and that they don’t think of you as a “full person” or a “real woman”. How can you read their mind?
C2: This is not about reading somebody’s hidden thoughts. If somebody treats me with disrespect, then they don’t respect me. If somebody expects that am willing to sleep with them for absolutely no reason, then they don’t consider me fully human. It’s like they think I’m an anime character or other fictional person.
C1: Yeah, I’ll give you that. Nobody likes otaku and Japanophiles anyway.
C2: I don’t think it’s just white men who watch anime and consume Japanese media that are like that. Mainstream, Western entertainment often show romances between white men and Asian women, and in these fictional stories, the Asian women automatically fall in love with white men because they are white. Many white men who watch this think that this is reality.
C1: Only very stupid and uneducated people think that TV is the same as real life. Normal people can tell the difference between fiction and reality.
C2: It’s not just especially stupid and uneducated people who are influenced by the mainstream media. Those white men who I interacted with were university students. Just because you are smart in one thing does not mean that you are smart in all things. White people rarely think about race compared to non-white people, so they are generally mentally undeveloped in that area.
C1: Isn’t the problem that they are thinking about race? They treat you differently from a white woman because they think of you as Asian. If people stopped thinking about race, then there would be no more racism.
C2: No. People’s minds are going to register visual attributes of a person whether or not they are conscious of it. The brain processes race and gender at a very low level of perception. When people try to be “color blind”, what they are doing is simply being not conscious of how their actions are influenced by their perceptions of race. This, in turn, results in racist behaviour. However, the targets of this unconscious racism are very much conscious of the “color blind” person’s perceptions of the target’s race.
C1: How can the brain process “race” if there is no such thing as race? The article you linked says “ethnicity”, not “race”.
C2: Race exists as a social construct. Different races are not different subspecies of human, but phenotype differences are real, and the racial categorization is determined socially. So your brain processes skin colour and facial features at a low level of perception. I’m referring to this as “race” because I can’t think of a more appropriate word. It doesn’t make sense to say that the brain can visually process “ethnicity”, because ethnicity has less to do with how you look. “Asian” is not so much an ethnicity, as most Asians would not think that their “ethnicity” is “Asian”.
C1: I’m tired of debating right now.
C2: Me too. Let’s take a break.
I like the C2 part of this dialogue… seems to think on a higher plain of thought than C1.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but in these “yellow fever” encounters with white men, it’s not all about you. By that I mean, what’s often going on in the white guy’s head are some feelings about himself too. The white guys I’ve known like this often go for Asian women because they don’t feel self-confident enough to go for white women. It’s true, that feeling is, as you said (or as one of you said!), about you as a supposedly sub-level human, but when these white guys are feeling less timid with Asian women than with white women, it’s also about them. Sometimes it goes so far as a guy feeling like he’s entering a sort of foreign zone where he can be someone other than the self he was before–and often, again, someone who’s more confident with women than that other self (speaking of double consciousness!). So what I’m saying is that, in many cases, this is a part of the attraction, and it seems left out of your debate.
By the way, have you seen this short film on the topic? It’s pretty funny, and it ends on the part of the topic that I’m dealing with here, from the Asian male perspective. I think it also raises another relevant question–you write about what so many white guys see in Asian women, but, what do so many Asian women see in white guys?
Why asian guys can’t get white girls
It’s not even “not all about me”. It’s not even about me at all. That’s part of why it’s dehumanizing.
Yeah, I’ve seen that film. I wanted to hate it, but it was very funny, especially the ending.
I don’t really know what so many Asian women see in white guys. There is probably no one answer. I know Asian women who are dating or married to white guys, and I can’t generalize from a small sample, and I see no pattern. There are some with internalized racism, while others have a very advanced understanding of race, to the academic level (graduate studies) that is way beyond my understanding, and is with a white guy despite this and her aversion to whites. I know there is a general pattern of white male/Asian female, but I think somebody needs to do a real rigorous study on this instead of generalizing from personal experience.
Yes, I see what you mean by it not being “about you,” of course, and that’s not what I meant. I just meant that there are often things going on with the white guy about himself in that fantasy as well as what’s going on in the part of the fantasy that gets glommed onto you as an “Asian” woman.
There have been studies of these relationships, in for instance, the Journal of Asian American Studies, but I don’t remember what they said, and don’t have time to find them right now . . . they are out there, though.
I do think that Orientalism is about white European culture, something that belongs in “White People Studies” rather than “Asian Studies”. Even the whole concept of “Asian” is about white people rather than “Asians”. Thus, the part of the fantasy that gets glommed onto me as an “Asian” woman is still about him, or at least about white culture/white identity.
Wow, I found these through Racialicious:
Fetish and Anti-Fetish (revisted)
So it comes…
Thanks for linking to me! This entry summed up a lot of the conversations that go on in my head, and I appreciate another Asian woman recognizing that these conversations are fucking confusing. I especially like your last comment – it IS all framed within whiteness, isn’t it? Even when it’s about us, it’s about us in relation to white people. Anyways, what’s your take on the stuff I wrote? There’s another post I did, that was a followup to the huge debacle that came out of the “So It Comes” post. It’s the most lucid argument I’ve managed to write regarding the topic, if you’re interested:
http://zoehassex.blogspot.com/2008/04/read-it-read-all-of-it.html
Hi Zoe,
For “Fetish and Anti-Fetish (revisited)”, it reminded me of the racial self-consciousness that people of colour have that prevent us from acting “normally” or “unselfconsciously” when the action is related to a racial stereotype. Probably because of my own internalized racism, I was surprised to find that Asian women who are with white men are also hyper-aware of these stereotypes, and perhaps even more so than Asian women who are not with white men. I had previously thought Asian women who are with white men are with white men because they are racially unaware and submissive, but this assumption, of course, comes from internalized racism and sexism. Also, it wouldn’t make sense for me to think that, since the Asian women I know in real life who are with white men are intelligent, and not ’stupid’, which I assumed of other Asian women with white men, those I don’t know in real life.
For the second one, “So it comes…” I would have found it very offensive, except I was blown away by what I perceived to be the extreme extent of internalized racism. This Asian woman who grew up with white people gets off on the extremely degrading Asian whore stereotype. Wow, I thought. Like one of your commenters, I also questioned your intelligence.
However, after reading the follow-up post to “So It Comes”, which you linked now, I see that you actually aren’t stupid and you really do understand how your article was problematic. You covered all the bases, all the questions in my mind, and then some. The follow-up is a great article. It’s a shame it arose from something that was so messed up.
Quite frankly, I’m sick of you white guys always hitting on me (an “asian” girl) for sexual advances. At first it was flattering but now you are making me HATE YOU. Maybe if you tried treating me like a f*cking person you won’t get rejected by me so much-because that is exactly what I am and will do continue to do, you’re USERS, sick perverted bastards who are always trying to get pussy from anyone you can-including any race- you ‘re sexual deviants, but then again the whole male gender is. FU aholes.
Don’t be so hard on the white guys. White guys are like any other guys. They will try to stick their small dicks inside a hole as many chances as they can get. White guys just finds asian women more attractive and more feminine than any other race, that’s all. Even though I find horny man disgusting, try to look at the glass half full which is someone finds you attractive. I find throughly disgusting and revolting this infatuation white guys have on asian women only. It just shows white people have mental and psychological problems. Even the media reports all these child molestation, incest, etc is done by whites. I’m not a psychiatrist so only explanation I can come up with is this sexual psychological problems whites have is due to the color of their skin, or lack of. (I bet whites are screaming I’m a racist) I’m not a racist since I don’t hate white people. I’m merely trying to understand why white people are so sexual than any other race. Only whites would have sex with animals. Even though I’m not a racist since I like having white friends or friends from other races but if I notice white guys want more than a friendship, I let them know I’m not interested. They usually get very upset but that’s just their way of coping with rejection. Let them be. I actually feel sorry for white guys, though, because white women are infatuated with black guys so white guys are just putting all their hopes on asian women.
Someone put some statistics up that shows AF/WM ratio is 4 times higher than other interracial relationships. Even in the 21st century, women still wait for guys to ask them out (sad). Since white guys asks asian women out more than any other race, obviously the statistic will show higher ratio of AF/WM.
If you’re an asian men reading this, a helpful hint for you. Instead of complaining about AF/WM, throw away your chauvenist attitude then you will have better chance of dating asian women. If you’re a white guys reading this, don’t believe the mainstream media. Asian women want to date asian men but because asian men have higher standards, they settle for less which will be whites. If you’re non-asian, non-white reading this, you will fall under the white guys territory which is date your own kind.
Chris,are you black? Because if you aren’t and are Asian,who are you to say white men have small dicks? It’s a well known fact that Asian men have small ones.In fact a newspaper report I read – in the UK – showed that Indian men found normal size condoms too big.
You Asian women should stick to your own men.Exotic? I don’t think bow legs and flat faces are exactly attractive.
Oh,and as a white woman,I am most certainly not infatuated with black guys.I have a good white man in my life who also only likes white women (we are both white nationalist).
What is this crap with whites having sex with animals etc? I guess that is why blacks go around in Africa having sex with goats and getting high from sniffing their own faeces.Go figure!
As for your so called white friends,I wonder what they would think if they knew your views about whites.
Carly, no I’m not black. I’m an Asian woman who doesn’t have bow legs and a flat face. Majority of Asian women have nice legs and beautiful faces (as told by white men). At least we’re not fat, lazy, dumbed down, ditzy inbreds that you white women are notorious for being jealous of Asian women. Go date my kind, you say, have you not read this thread? Are you illiterate too? Asian women do NOT want white men to bother us. No one thinks white people are all that. Trust me on that. I’m not against inter-racial relationships as long as it’s healthy and being in love. However, the white people I described above disgusts me. If you aren’t one of them, then obviously it doesn’t pertain to you now does it?? I’m very picky when it comes to people I associate myself with and the so called white friends agree with me. Obviously they don’t fall into the perverted, mentally-ill lunatics. Your racist comments about black people are uncalled for and unnecessary. Why is that other races can get along with each other except for you whites? Is it in your nature to hate others out of jealousy? Oh, and why do you white people always trying to make other races hate on one another? We are not dumbed down and we get your game, but we’re too mature to play it. Sometimes I wonder how peaceful and loving this world would be without your kind running around.
Oh, since you’re a white woman, why don’t you do me and rest of us a favor and tell your own kind to stick to their kind. If you’re too dumbed down to understand this, it means, tell your white dudes to stop asking us out and bother ONLY the white women. Don’t come whining to us and accusing us stealing your men. If you white women stop whoring around and being materialistic then maybe your own kind will respect you and date you. Have you thought about that huh huh?
One more thing, I wouldn’t make fun of Asian men’s penis sizes. It’s a well known fact that white men have small penises. Since you’re married to one, I’m sure you know that. Another well known fact is that you white women are infatuated with black men due to many reasons, but the most popular reason is they’re known to be well endowed. Tell your white kind to get theirs surgically enlarged then. LOL
Chris, I do have to say you’re probably the most implausible human being I think I’ve seen on an abstract medium such as this. For the record, white men are known to have “average” sized penises. Just like any statistic there are exceptions which you fail to fathom. Also white women aren’t all infatuated with black men due to penises. A lot of women are more or less attracted for various reasons, and to say such is not only lowering your own self worth and or intelligence but just proves how little self-actuation you have achieved.
Being a white guy, I will comment on my own perspective. I grew up from a Jewish/German background with influences from Baptist and Methodist Christian. I personally am Agnostic. I went to college and earned a degree in Business, along with a degree in Computer Science with a minor in Asian Studies. I love history and civilization. I’ve studied everything from Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Greek, Roman, Ancient Turkish/Moor. I studied Japanese and Chinese culture, including language. Overall I just enjoy learning other ancient and modern cultures. I’m currently in a relationship with a beautiful Japanese girl. Now she didn’t pick me out because I was white, she likes my personality. I’m nice, generous, helpful, and I overall tend to look out for her well being and support her emotionally. Now in any of that did I show any such infatuation that she was Asian and that I wanted to put my “dick” in any hole I could? No, she happens to be a well respected model/actress that I just happened to have bumped into and we took it from there.
You also happened to say that Asian women didn’t want white men to bother them? Well unless you’re an expert on a demography as large as that I would suggest you limit your opinion on something more or less to the like that “you” don’t want white men to bother “you”. Many people of other cultures are interested in each other because it is different. Just like any culture there are bad seeds. Those that show inferiority tend to get immediately labeled by society and overall it reflects everyone as a whole. This is why the whole concept of why “Asian women like White men” is not conclusive. Especially since culturally you have to first go into perspective on what country of origin are we talking about for the Asian girls? Also what age groups? It is devastatingly obvious that it was over generalized since you have to take into account multiple variables and due to that without such you get an inconclusive answer.
Than again with such racial bashing as seen in the comments above it is no doubt in my mind that people will always examine something as half full in due regards to their own personal agenda.
The comments were quite interesting and intectuall until things turned into racial bashing. Now it feels like topix( a extremely racial site for racial people) all over again. And Carly, you and your boy toy sound really racist…… are you a member of the New “KKK”?
The only white guys who go for asian girls are the types without confidence to approach white women, ie. Beta males. I’ve seen this over and over again. I’ve met many of these and they say “asian women are easy”; which really puts into perspective their lack of competence in dating.
This says 2 things: 1) asian females are dumbasses giving up their bodies so easily which encourages the whites to perceive them to be weak (hence the myth asian females are hypersexual blah blah blah) 2) white guys who go for asian girls are the bottom of the barrel and can’t get their game together so they have to rely on their white physical appearance to score.
The only emotion that I encounter when I see AF/WM couples is pity toward the WM; the guy’s had it rough.